Sea Breeze

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Posts by Sea Breeze

• 
  37

  114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

  i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

  he brought up this juicy source:.

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  Sea Breeze

  VH7 - Rev. 5:9 doesn't say the 144k male Jewish virgins are from every kindred and nation?

  "And they sung a new song, saying, Thou art worthy to take the book, and to open the seals thereof: for thou wast slain, and hast redeemed us to God by thy blood out of every kindred, and tongue, and people, and nation"

  The 144K are not introduced until Chapter 7.

  Rev. 14 says they (144K are on MT. Zion.) They hear a voice "from heaven" because they are on earth.
  
  What makes you think the 144K are in heaven?
  
  
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  20

  Religion vs. The Gospel

  by Chalam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello jwners,.

  the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

  the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

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  Sea Breeze

  Excellent quotes you dug up there VH7!
  
  It's like they want to be cursed of God. Evil slaves.... every one of them.
• 
  27

  Jehovah's New Light

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what new light from jehovah did you find hard to swallow?.

  the conversations in the attached video are enlightening.

  the graphic is hilarious.. https://youtu.be/byj3zrpbuvg.

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  Sea Breeze

  Jehovah's Witnesses are supreme expert liars. This video is just one of many examples on the internet. Everyone seems to act the same when asked questions, they give the same canned answers. They act the exact same when they have had enough. It is downright creepy.
• 
  37

  114,000, Literal, or Symbolic?

  by Wonderment in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  a poster wrote to me privately, and brought to my attention the following comment below i made a while back in regards to the 144,00 number of revelation.

  i had casually conjectured that this number was likely symbolic in line with the book of revelation being mostly symbolic in kind.

  he brought up this juicy source:.

  1. 
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  Sea Breeze

  @ ozziepost: I don't see the problem with letting the bible mean what is says, and say what it means.

  Here are some of the facts about the 144,000 we can know from Scripture:
  
  

  • They are called “the servants of our God” here. (Revelation 7:3)
  • They are sealed for their protection. (Revelation 7:1-3)
  • Their seal is the seal of God, which is the Father's Name written on their foreheads. (Revelation 7:3,14:1)
  • They are taken care of by God for a time, and times and half a time. (Revelation 12:14)
  • The dragon hates them and will seek to destroy them. (Revelation 12:15)
  • They are virgins not defiled with women. (Revelation 14:4a)
  • They are not deceitful and are right before God. (Revelation 14:5)
  • They will be redeemed from among men. (Revelation 14:4)
  • They will be firstfruits to God and to the Lamb. (Revelation 14:4)
  • Not only are they Jewish but also true followers of Jesus Christ. (Revelation 7:4,14:4b)
  • They are humans of earth, not sent from heaven or anywhere else.(Revelation 7:2-3,14:4b)

  Remember, the church is not seen or spoken of in Revelation after Chapter 3.
• 
  3

  Human rights violations being ignored by.....

  by BoogerMan in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  .....ukraine!!!

  (according to osce submission in 2019) https://www.osce.org/odihr/431066.

  if it was homosexuals or transsexuals being targeted, would nations & the democracies of the world be supporting the ukrainian government?.

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  Sea Breeze

  I thought everyone knew that this war was at least in part about Putin trying to stop the spread of aggressive homosexual agenda.

  Here's Zalinski doing an erotic dance.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5CDJejIZOgU&ab_channel=yanabird

  Ukraine has big homosexual marches in the streets.

  But Russian banned them in the capitol for 100 years.
• 
  27

  Jehovah's New Light

  by Vanderhoven7 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  what new light from jehovah did you find hard to swallow?.

  the conversations in the attached video are enlightening.

  the graphic is hilarious.. https://youtu.be/byj3zrpbuvg.

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  Sea Breeze

  Quote: "We change not because we are fickle, but because we just want to progress into spiritual light".

  Wow! No fear of God and they put their trust in men:

  But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. - Gal. 1: 8-9

  My bible says there is no such thing as doctrinal "new light". When the apostles died, Christian doctrine was fixed in an unalterable state... at least until the Lord returns.

  Cursed is the man who puts their trust in men. - Jer. 17: 5

  
  
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  20

  For Born-Ins - If You Were 18 Again, What 7 Things Would You do Differently?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  here's mine:.

  1. go immediately to college and study construction management.

  2. set up an ira and start contributing every year.

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  Sea Breeze

  I would have bought that 1981 Z28 Camaro. I wanted it sooooo bad!

  
  
• 
  29

  Was / Is God biased ? prejudiced against certain Peoples / Tribes or Nations ?

  by smiddy3 in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  let me explain :.

  after the creation account of the bible, tribes of people and nations began to form and spread around the land.. god first chose noah and his family to protect them as he destroys all others in the flood.. and he ticks off everyone in babel ?

  and then he favours abraham and his descendants as the nation of israel culminating in the jewish lineage to jesus the son of god.. he has never had any dealings with any other people`s or nation isn`t that some form of favouritism ?

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  Sea Breeze

  I think that Dr. Habermas took his sampling from scholars "who publish in the area" of Jesus Death & Resurrection:

  What would make non-Christian scholars like Paula Fredriksen, say stuff like this:

  I know in their own terms what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attest to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know that as a historian that they must have seen something.

  Here is a list of 42 statements from skeptic, Christian & non-Christian scholars who publish in this area :

  -Bart Ehrman (New Testament scholar, historian of early Christianity) (5)

  • “That Jesus’ followers (and later Paul) had resurrection experiences is, in my judgment, a fact. What the reality was that gave rise to the experiences I do not know.”

  • “Paul’s tradition that 500 people saw Jesus at the same time has led some people to suggest that Jesus’ followers suffered mass hysteria. But mass hysteria does not explain the other traditions.”

  • “Finally we know that after his death his followers experienced what they described as the ‘resurrection’: the appearance of a living but transformed person who had actually died. They believed this, they lived it, and they died for it.”

  -E. P. Sanders (New Testament and Pauline scholar) (6)

  • “It may be taken as historically certain that Peter and the disciples had experiences after Jesus’s death in which Jesus appeared to them as the risen Christ.”

  -Gerd Ludemann (1946-2021) (Biblical historian) (7)

  • “After Jesus’ death, the disciples endured persecution, and a number of them experienced martyrdom. The strength of their conviction indicates that they were not just claiming Jesus had appeared to them after rising from the dead. They really believed it. They willingly endangered themselves by publicly proclaiming the risen Christ.”

  –Michael Licona (New Testament scholar) (8)

  • “I accept the resurrection of Easter Sunday not as an invention of the community of disciples, but as a historical event. If the resurrection of Jesus from the dead on that Easter Sunday were a public event which had been made known…not only to the 530 Jewish witnesses but to the entire population, all Jews would have become followers of Jesus.”

  -Pinchas Lapide (1922-1997) (Jewish theologian) (9)

  • “The conviction that Jesus had risen from the dead had already taken root by the time Paul was converted about 33 C.E. On the assumption that Jesus died about 30 C.E., the time for development was thus two or three years at most.”

  -Robert Funk (1926-2005) (Biblical scholar) (10)

  • “The disciples thought that they had witnessed Jesus’ appearances, which, however they are explained, “is a fact upon which both believer and unbeliever may agree.”

  -Reginald Fuller (1915-2007) (Biblical scholar) (11)

  • “Even the most skeptical historian” must do one more thing: “postulate some other event” that is not the disciples’ faith, but the reason for their faith, in order to account for their experiences. Of course, both natural and supernatural options have been proposed.”

  -Reginald Fuller (Biblical scholar) (12)

  • “I know in their own terms, what they saw was the raised Jesus. That’s what they say, and then all the historic evidence we have afterwards attests to their conviction that that’s what they saw. I’m not saying that they really did see the raised Jesus. I wasn’t there. I don’t know what they saw. But I do know as an historian, that they must have seen something.”

  -Paula Fredrickson (Historian and scholar of early Christianity) (13)

  • “If Jesus had died and stayed dead, they would either have given up the movement, or they would have found another messiah. Something extraordinary happened which convinced them that Jesus was the Messiah.”

  -Nicholas Thomas (N. T.) Wright (New Testament and Pauline scholar) (14)

  • “… that is why, as a historian, I cannot explain the rise of early Christianity unless Jesus rose again, leaving an empty tomb behind him.”
• 
  20

  Religion vs. The Gospel

  by Chalam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello jwners,.

  the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

  the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

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  Sea Breeze

  Didn't think this would develop into a thread about Trinity. I was hoping it would be about the distinctions between the Watchtower gospeland that of Paul's.

  Christians preach a gospel of reconciliation:

  2 Corinthians 5:18

  Now all these things are from God, who reconciled us to Himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation,

  Source

  The Watchtower preaches the gospel of the kingdom that the 144K male Jewish virgins will be preaching during the Great Tribulation. Why? Because the watchtower believes that the Church Age ended in 1914 or thereabouts. And, with that alleged ending.... the ministry of reconciliation ended as well.
  
  This of course is nothing more than an evil attempt to deny people peace with God. No, can't have that. You must slave for the WT to get life now.

  For perspective, only 4 out of 30 times in the NT is the gospel characterized as being of the kingdom:

  New Testament occurrences of the term "Gospel of _______" .

  Gospel of Jesus Christ (or Christ ) – 12 times

  Gospel of God – 7 times

  Gospel of the kingdom – 4 times

  Gospel of peace – 2 times

  Gospel of the grace of God – 1 time

  Gospel of your salvation – 1 time

  Gospel of the uncircumcision – 1 time

  Gospel of the circumcision – 1 time

  Gospel of his Son – 1 time
• 
  20

  Religion vs. The Gospel

  by Chalam in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  hello jwners,.

  the jw i chatted with recently directed me to matthew 24 with regards to the witnesses and highlighted matthew 24:14. i asked him what "this gospel" is.

  the only answer i got was "i'm not sure what you mean".. .

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  Sea Breeze

  How can Jesus say (1) that the Father is greater than I while at the same time claim (2) that he possessed ALL authority in heaven and earth?

  How could Jesus have a beginning by being born and have been the Creator as well?

  Colossians 1

  16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: 17 And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.

  
  

  John 1: 3 without Him nothing was made that was made.

  
  

  These are among the reasons Christians believe Jesus to be both God and Man... not just one or the other.